I’m guessing you’re not familiar with professional editors, filming studios, etc. who had used Final Cut 1-7 for years, and then Apple did exactly what @Tomatenklempner wrote – they ditched professionals using their software, as it was more profitable to hit a new emerging market, YouTube content creators.
@Tomatenklempner, Omni has never been like that and I don’t think Omni will stop value old time users. Their commitment to creating an excellent products is obvious. All the people and bloggers stand behind Omni and I’m sure they work together.
It’s not the case of “ditching” old time users and focusing on high school and college people, or people who just bought a Mac. The frustrations here, posted by many people, are that the changes which has been requested over and over since early 2013 are not known, when, if, and why not.
We just want to know if these features will be implemented and some approximate time – 3 months, 6 month, etc… So we can figure out a workflow, which will get us thru that time.
Omni is always responding, “yes, it’s on the radar.” This is frustrating.
I have an issue with the assumption that new or light users are the only ones with a positive experience of OmniFocus 2.
I’ve been using OmniFocus since 2008. I’m the head of tech for one of the UK’s largest websites, so I have a plenty difficult/complex job. I manage 8 people directly and 30 people indirectly.
This is not intended as an appeal to authority but rather a thank you to OmniGroup - OmniFocus and GTD are currently all that’s keeping me sane and on track with all of that. I think OmniFocus 2 is great, and as a software developer and product person I really appreciate the platform they’ve created to make even greater things in the future.
Of course running a very large website also means I’m used to people getting angry about their specific personal opinions not being the most important thing in any organisation’s development cycle, so I can only applaud the Omnigroup for allowing this forum and the endless complaining in this thread and others to continue.
I think that when a new user interface (even if some people will call it just a fresh coat of paint) will dramatically change workflows. I was also hesitant with the new OF2. The OF2 beta (especially in the early stages) were a big shock to the system. But I also warmed up to it.
My workflows have changed dramatically since OF2 for Mac and OF2 for iPad were introduced. The journey was painful but it was worth it. It’s like boot camp or Hell Week. You sweat, grunt, billed, and curse profusely but you come out better in the end.
I just shake my head when some folks complain that some features that were present in the iPad (forecast, review) are old news when it is finally ported over to the Mac version.
I was elated to finally see custom perspectives on the iPad version and looking forward to seeing it eventually migrate on the iPhone version in the future. I think I like the progress so far. Yes, we all wished for things that we thought should’ve been implemented a long time ago. But we’re getting there… I’m looking forward to more developments coming soon.
is that a freeletics remark, my friend? It seems to me we have way more in common than a good taste software-wise ;-)
I am in the boat with @Thomas and @wilsonng : we are getting the best of worlds currently with the Omni system- even if it requires us to work around some quirks, change some habits and wait for our most-beloved feature to become alive in the new version. There is more than just the supposition that things are getting better. I just clicked my first checkbox in condensed mode complete! And set a tiny flag! Try it too and celebrate for getting further piece by piece ;-)
Yeah, same here. I get that some people aren’t happy with the direction that OF has taken. And I certainly have a few issues as well. But I’m much happier with 2 than I was 1, and I would be pretty upset to have to return to 1.
But this ‘only new, light users are happy’ is an assumption that simply isn’t true. I use OF to run every aspect of my life, which has never been more complicated. And I one of the original users of Kinkless when it was a hack on top of OmniOutliner. So I’ve been here since the beginning.
So I’m all for hearing complaints, and I even agree with a few, but splitting the happy and unhappy into two groups representing the old guard and the newbies simply doesn’t hold water and isn’t true.
You might read wrong some comments here. I’m personally happy with Omni products and I respect the Omni team. However, it’s exasperating (to not use frustrating again), that some features from OF1 were left out, and very obvious features are not implemented. It’s all what’s that about. What you’re writing about is off-topic, and not what the OP (@DrJJWMac) wrote about in the first place.
Wilson … I agree often with what you say. Your insights and postings here are consistently well-directed, positive, and exceptionally helpful. As a compliment, I often wish that I had as much patience, endurance, and positive approach as you do in your responses. My history is sadly a bit more tarnished.
On the one issue of whether OF2 is an worthy update to OF1, we mostly part ways. I am not making a statement that OF2 sucks or is worthless or … whatever (though that may have come out between the lines of my earlier frustrations and vents). I am stating in some way or another that, so little has come out of so much hype and anticipation that I am left … disappointed. By comparison to what really should have been possible in the time since OF2 was first announced, in comparison to the quantum leaps and bounds in development that have been made in that same time by a number of other high-level packages that I use seriously in my workflow, and by comparison to the timely and well-informed notices that continue to come out of those other developers to tell us users frankly about their awareness of bugs and feature requests and their intent to fix them ASAP (or not as appropriate), the release of OF2 feels like a bad B-grade movie that has been over-hyped, under designed, poorly delivered, and left to be swept off the shelves by fawning fans until it is awarded “cult” status (e.g. … why doesn’t EVERYONE like this … they must be so dumb!).
I have integrated with and adapted to the desktop version of OF2. It continues to be an occasional boot camp experience, and this has nothing to do with me using it “the wrong way”. Unless, by that you mean, OF1 was designed in some cases to be used “the wrong way”, and OF2 “fixed” that problem.
I refuse yet to upgrade to OF2 on the iOS platforms. Primarily I ask, why should I pay to loose the home screen layout of my custom perspectives that absolutely make or break how rapidly I can process through my workload? Why should I tolerate that I will likely never again be able to use OF2 the way that I want rather than the way that millions of other customers say it should be? Is it painful not to have some of the other bells and whistles? I don’t know, I don’t care anymore even to try to find out, and I don’t even believe anymore that I will in my lifetime have a respectable chance to find out.
Finally, in reference to those who might say OG gives all due notice to their plans as needed, I would ask that you trouble yourselves to find where OG does a side-by-side comparison of features between OF1 and OF2 across each platform. Why, when OF2 is to be THAT good compared to OF1, do we not have a table that shows what does and does not carry forward as well as what is and is not brand new? Why are we left here in these forums to rut-around about whether this or that is or is not in OF2 versus OF1? Why did it take me an impossibly long time to even realize that OF2 on the iPhone would NOT allow custom layouts of the home screen … and that was after a long series of late-night readings in these forums.
If OF2 is THAT good, then gosh darn, perhaps it is only that good because it is mostly kept in the dark (and even something ugly looks good there)!!!
(sigh)
My apologies. I am older, stubborn, and sometimes downright ornery any more when it comes to my expectations about the software I choose to use. On the bright side, I guess it could be worse. I could be forced to use a Windows system (although TortoiseSVN has never ever been replicated anywhere as good for free on the Mac). :-)
I was one of those happy customers initially. I bought OF2 for Mac and the IOS version as soon as it they were available. I was immediately impressed by the complete redesign of the mac version and the adoption of new IOS guidelines
from Apple. The home screen of iPhone version, in particular looked like a million dollars. But as I begin to use them in earnest, that “Oh” moment of regret started to hit more and more. The iPhone version just became unusable for me
with my complex project layout. And the Mac version, well that’s been well documented here already: data density, missing features and perspectives in particular while conceptually are a great idea, the execution of them leave a lot to be desired. I ended up with perspectives which didn’t quite deliver my data the way I needed and I always feel like I’m comprising when I use Omnifocus now.
I respect the fact that Omnigroup allow their users to voice their opinions openly. Almost every product sold on the internet is subject to review, criticism, comment. As a software developer my work has oft been
critiqued, sometimes negatively and that’s part of our profession. It’s business, not personal and normally companies respect that and learn from it. In my opinion, Omnigroup has made a mistake with Omnifocus on this occasion.
And initial sales figures or star rates won’t change my mind on this. I suspect the more the product is used, the more the weakness will show particularly from people with complex setups. People with simple todo style tasks lists,
probably will be happy enough. But Omnifocus has always been marketed as “Professional Grade” software. It don’t think it’s up to the mark any more.
Omnigroup would do well by themselves as follows:
Identify and publish the functional gaps between OF1 and OF2.
Produce a timeline for implementation of these gaps
Clean up the messy user interface.
There are some folks on the forum who are real fans of Omnifocus and get upset or shake their fingers at people who post negative comments. I don’t understand this. It’s not big issue stuff.
It’s just a task manager! from a successful company with other great products. I have no doubt they will be around for a long time. Everyone makes mistakes. Omnigroup have made one here.
Right from the disastrous beta, it was apparent that they did not know how to proceed with OF. But as I say, it’s only task manager app. Most of us could run our lives with a notebook and pen,
if we really wanted to. People did not so long ago. Task manager software brings convenience and fun to an otherwise drab necessity.
I don’t take it too seriously and I move from product to product periodically but I enjoy doing it. I have the “task management app bug” as lots of others have to, Maybe I should set up a support
group for us poor folks who can’t settle on one product. Right now I have moved away to another product.
producing a timeline is gonna be a guaranteed way to disappoint many folks. I’ve seen politicians try to come up with vague 2- 4 year timelines during election season It’s often too vague to be useful or too detailed and certainly will bring flames and fury when well intentioned milestones aren’t met on time.
Fair enough. But sometimes in software development, end-date project management is a strategy/tool used to focus people and a stick to a commitment.
Anyway,we’ll see…
Well, it’s been a couple of months, so I thought I’d check back in. Is OmniGroup digging a deeper moat around the castle to keep the hordes of unhappy users at bay, or has there been any progress on fixing the UI issues: Fully functional compact layout, and layout customizations (fonts, colors, column width/hiding, etc)?
[Mr. Moderator, the moat comment completely a tongue in cheek joke - no need to hide this post, ok?]
I would LOVE a blog post that says: (i) here are the features that aren’t in OF2, though they appear in OF1; (ii) here are the ones that will be coming to OF2 (timetable preferred); and (iii) here are the OF1 features we are never including in OF2 (rationale preferred).
More transparency would be nice, if for no other reason than to help us figure out if it’s worth our time to wait for OF2 to be fixed, or if we should simply move on. Has the product “been Finalcut,” or is there a feature complete version in the works?
We’ll see what we can learn in the future about where OG has their focus and commitment with their software that is designed to do top-quality project management toward exactly the results that you mention.
(results have been edited to remove otherwise logical inferences)
The Things suite such are such beautiful apps, I wonder does this signal Things 3 is on it’s way soon? If they add subtasks and a few more tweaks…I reckon it’s game over.
Hahahahahaahaaaa, that’s a good one- this is SO funny! You guys seriously complaining in the Omnifocus forums about Omni not delivering while pointing to Things 3…
Guys, You have no idea what kind of struggle Cultured Code is putting their fanbase through, honestly… Things 3 is announced since september 17th 2013… GerryMac knows what I am talking about… they got the funky status board that basically is not even slightly announcing even a beta for the new version yet! It will be another year roughly until the new version arrives …The new releases of Things were nothing but the overly necessary GUI polish, because before that they were on 2007 level…
in terms of delivering, OmniFocus can unashamedly be called progressive and frequently updating- compared to Things.
Hehe indeed, I’m laughing at my own post, what was I thinking. Sorry OG! No argument that they work at a snails pace and they get slated for it also. They don’t seem too bothered though.
They don’t try to pamper their customers. It’s kinda like “Look, you bought a product, it works, now leave us alone!” And in a lot of ways I kind of like them for that.
I was’t pointing to them as a model for timely delivery. Far from it.
The difference is that Things does exactly what it says on the tin. You know exactly what you are buying.
It’s extremely robust, easy to use and very well designed. Great for folks who have a medium sized set of projects and just do not want to have to think about
how to implement a system of their own.
They sell bucket loads of units by all accounts. The built in workflows are so well thought out. Your
up and running in ten minutes.
Well done mat_rhein for spotting my flawed comparison though
Yeah, that’s a uniquely german customer service attitude… since you have no options there, eventually you start to like it ;-)… that said, it seems like there is no “one way fits all” customer relation method- both companies get their good share of sarcasm at times… they might also be dealing with a very special customer base as well, since we seem to be the constant factor in the equation [evil grin]
You’re right, although I couldn’t even pinpoint it to some feature in particular… it feels simpler. This is the impression I am always longing for when I consider walking away from OF for a while… this feeling of simplicity then lasts until I have all my stuff transferred properly… then I come back to where the structure is deeper and where I have the freedom of splitting every task too big into smaller pieces ;-)
