Frustrations with OF2

OmniFocus OmniFocus for Mac
#42

Dear OF-team,

I started using OF when it was a homemade modified version of the Omnioutliner. So I must admit I have been here a while and I started using OF because of the lack of options for Mac. OF was also exciting to follow and I remember feeling that all of us in the community knew that this was going to become great. And it did! Thanks for that.

Unfortunately, I think that the whole OF 2 series is a disappointment. OF 1 for Mac was great for its time, but fell behind. OF for iphone wasn’t great, but it was a step up from my Nokia N80 sync via their todo-list. OF for iPad had real potential and was for a while the only app/program I used.

Today, I am browsing the web at least once a week for another app. I have spent a dollar or two trying them out as well. But no one is better than OF, because that was built for us GTD nerds and adapted to fit all of our different needs.

But one thing I am sure of: One week, there will be an app or a software that suits me better. And here are the reasons why:

  • All other apps or software has developed incredibly over the last years, OF has not. OF was the greatest program many years ago, still is, but the others catch up and soon will take the lead.
  • OF is standing tall on their “Apple-only policy”. 6 years ago, I admired them for that. Now I know it will be their downfall. If I want a Sony, a Samsung or any other phone I might find better than an iPhone one day; or when work forces me to use a pc; of course OF won’t hold me back. Where I would never switch from Apple 10 years ago, I will do in a heartbeat today when the other product is better.
  • The new OF 2 series is not intuitive. And I love the irony; They swear to Apple, but they are not intuitive. How many uncomfortable clicks does it take me on the iPhone to convert an item from the inbox into a project, make the full project list and then get back again…??? I am sorry, but your new UI is not good at all. It is Apple Maps bad.

My arguments for choosing differently is increasing every day, but I still find that OF is the best choice for me right now. But the next time a friend recommends a better app or a software, my guess is that it might be just that.

For what it’s worth: When I start browsing for something better, I always start by looking at the OF homepage. Perhaps you made the improvement yourself. Perhaps you see what we see.

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#43

I just switched to OF1. Could not stand limitation of 2. When OF2 was in a late Beta Ken was asking whether we were ready to switch completly to OF2. I was, but I was not expecting that the development will gets frozen at Beta.

I am missing styles a lot and I just can not plan things in OF2. I had to build a paralel OmniOutliner document (with styles), that would mirror my projects. That was the only way for me to have a reasonable view on the projects. Today I just realized how ridiculous it is.

It looks like the omnigroup dev is frozen or focused on iOS only … What a big pity, still good products, but not progressing at all.

#44

I agree with the sentiments voiced here in general. OF1 was criticised mainly for being difficult to use and the UI looked old and jaded. Having said that, at least when I view my lists I could quickly distinguish my projects from groups, tasks, overdue etc. Now when I look at the equivalent lists in OF2 i’m hit with a wall of data and I have to carefully scan the list to mentally break it down to it’s component parts.

While Omni have made the application “easier” to use, they really need to improve the styling now and make the user experience clear and nicer to use. Right now, I feel the user experience is probably the worst of all the major task managers on the mac platform. That is leaving aside the perceived “power” of omnifocus.

I’m also in agreement that not a single improvement in the functionality of the app as been made and in fact they have removed functionality (which have been documented in other threads).

They seem to be at a loss with how to proceed with Omnifocus in particular. This is not true of their other apps I use (Omniplan and Outliner). These apps have really nice, modern, clear unambiqous interface which is a joy to use. I’m not sure what has gone wrong in OF2.

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#45

There’s two kinds of easy.

Simple wizards, Fisher-Price colors and big affordances, up and running in a few minutes. That’s ‘easy to learn.’

Once you get past that initial learning and progress towards being a power user, is when you find whether something is ‘easy to use.’

You see it in a lot of software. The various GUIs for git make it easy to learn. But when you progress to power-user, you want the ease of use the command line provides. Not to mention density of information and details.

There’s a bit of an analogy in canoeing. Canoes have two kinds of stability. Initial stability is how stable and safe the canoe feels when you first get in. Final stability is about how low you can go before you’re in the drink. Beginners like the former, advanced users want the latter.

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#46

I am completely in agreement with what you wrote here. I have more headaches about my schedule than ever before. Even my life is simpler now, OmniFocus2 just makes it harder and harder to manage the amount of work I have with every month, because of missing features from OF1.

#47

Having switched back to OF1 and used it for a day, I actually enjoyed it and found it much more efficient, faster, cleaner. OF2 makes OF1 look good again. How did they manage that?

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#48

Nice analogy and I’ll think you’ll find that most rowers on this particular lake are experienced. The problem is that our boat has a few leaks!

#49

In my humble opinion, the OF Team has focused too much on the visual part. Instead of hiring more people in the development stage, the programmers had to deal with the design.
Everyone was blown away at first, even when beta testing, but all of it ended up after a few weeks. People started to falling short because of the DIFFERENCES between OF1 and OF2, and at the same time because there was a lack of implementing the most requested features.
No implementation of the features was because there is a constant battle to fix the bugs, again, because the programmers were developing round check mark buttons.

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#50

Ability-based slurs are never appropriate on these forums. Multiple posts in this thread have been hidden for using them. If the author edits them to address the inappropriate content, their posts will become visible again.

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#51

I think I understand your frustration and disappointment - and you’re not alone in having those feelings. As an example, here’s a response to another customer posting earlier in this thread with similar concerns.

The first thing I need to do - and only to avoid having other folks reading the thread end up confused about them - is address the speculative aspects of your post. The sequence of events you’re describing isn’t really what’s happened, and your experience - which is important to us - is atypical. For example: 88% of the customers who have rated OmniFocus 2 on the App Store have given it 5 stars. You’re not alone in being unhappy, but there are a lot of happy folks, too.

That out of the way, I feel the more important thing to address is the underlying emotional frustration your post represents for you. While OmniFocus 2 has been a very successful release, we are aware that some of the folks with the highest hopes for it are currently the ones that are most disappointed with it. That’s something we’re not ignoring.

Here’s what has happened/is happening: shortly after we released version 2 of the Mac app, Apple announced new devices and technologies that we knew we needed to take advantage of. If we didn’t we’d make a whole bunch of folks with new phones and new Macs unhappy. That took a few months, but our effort on that front is approaching completion. The concerns of customers like you are very much in mind as we think about what to do with the person-power that is coming available.

I suspect you want us to quote you specific lists of changes and timeframes, but we’ve learned painful lessons in the past about how that can misfire. They aren’t mistakes we want to repeat. I apologize for disappointing you in that respect, but hopefully the rest of this post is still of some use to you.

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#52

“Rabbi, where should we turn?”- Since there is no alternative around and most of us have adapted workflows completely tied to OmniFocus this sometimes might create the feeling of being trapped in this system.

Might I point out that the Omni guys are the ONLY task manager solution allowing You to simply export the whole database of tasks- just because they think that Your plans are not program- proprietary… Now this is what I call trustworthy if You ask me! Trusting means “believing without seeing”.

Let me put this from my perspective: I am sick of trying anything else over and over just to find out that nothing can complement OmniFocus. I will put up with the imperfections and irregularities, knowing that the time gained by settling here will free up enough space for me to increase my productivity on other fronts. OF is not my biggest problem concerning getting my stuff done- and I am quite sure that this holds true for many many others that vented their anger here.

Join me in encouraging the crafty folks here instead of complaining- fact-wise it is just the same information, but oh how important the style of the wrapping can be at times.

So thanks to Ken, Brian and the team for offering so many loopholes for those who want to fiddle around a little- it’s great fun to run those plist and URL commands and thereby mod my OF ;-)

I am enjoying the ride- hop in!

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#53

I got a little sad reading this, having recently started the generous free trial of OmniFocus 2 as a junior in high school, because I haven’t experienced any of these issues, quite the contrary. As many of you may know, junior year in the United States is considered the hardest year academically as students prepare to apply to college and attempt to maintain the GPAs they’ve worked so hard to accomplish previously.

My use case may be a bit atypical because I’m not yet an adult nor a computer scientist or other “knowledge worker.” (though I hope someday to be) I knew I needed to stay organized this year and after two months of floundering around with various Moleskines and to-do list apps I discovered OmniFocus 2.

And my god. What a change! I actually feel empowered to do work completely and on time again! I feel like I’m in control of my schedule! I’ve literally never felt this good about getting to do homework. Ever. I understand that for you wizened GTD geeks and long time OF veterans that OF2 must have come as a bit of shock. From the perspective of a new user though, this is absolutely incredible!

I find it hilarious that you guys say it’s un Apple-like to use eye candy. I’m sorry, have you seen what Windows looks like these days? Maybe some of the Linux desktop environments like KDE or Gnome? They’re hideous. Design is always about how it looks, the point of good design is that how it looks is how it works for a newcomer to the system.

But let me say it right here. I fucking love the eye candy. OmniFocus 2’s UI reminds me of the glory days of MS Office, before the inevitable feature creep came in. Focused, clear, consistent, gorgeous, and functional.

From what I can tell, your experiences aren’t even the most common. Keep in mind that most people are more likely to leave a review if they’re unhappy than if they’re overjoyed, unless they’re really, really giddy with excitement over something, like I am with OF2. When you look and see that 88% of reviews leave a five-star rating, that’s an enormous accomplishment. An enormous amount of people feel that OF2 has put them back in control of their lives, like I do. And ultimately, that’s all that matters.

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#54

Felt the same when I found out about OF years ago. The thing is if you don’t have a system, any system is better than no system. The further you go and develop new, more efficient ways, the more you’ll start to see things/features, that hold you back by the software.

Many old time OF users request fixing bugs, implementing new features, or bringing back old features from OF1. It’s not complaining.

Some people invested hundreds of dollars in Omni apps. Someone who’s using OF for a month, of course will be blown away and will leave 5 star. Not many discouraged people after seeing the glory of OF2, who will leave 1 star review.

The 88%, all the happy users, etc., cannot be compared to users who are vets of the OF, GTD and productivity.

It’s not about complaining and being pain in the bottom for the Omni team. We also want to make this software better. There are no people more loyal then these folks, who write feature requests and bug reports on the forum.

The part of the frustration is inseparable, when people who really care about the software and put a lot of money in it seem to never have their requests besides bugs even considered. That’s why there is frustration.

Comparing old time users, to fresh people who got into GTD 2 weeks ago is not really a valid argument. Of course new users, with no system developed, will like something which makes their life easier.

1 Like
#55

Yes, but the system isn’t nor should it be the most important part. The most important part is actually doing the work.

What I meant by saying it’s an achievement is that in general people don’t leave reviews unless there’s a bad problem. That’s why it’s exceedingly obvious when an app is bad because it will have like 90% bad reviews. People only leave reviews when there’s an enormous problem or when it’s changed their life. This is a pretty well accepted phenomenon. I assure you that the amount of people who bought OmniFocus is far larger than the number of people who left reviews. If you want to see veterans of the system who are pleased, look at the “How do you like OF2” thread. Tons of satisfied customers who are also veterans.

And you’re right. I’ll never know what it’s like to use OF1, nor do I care. OmniFocus 2 works for me, which is what really matters. I like the way it looks, I guess that means I’m a vacuous idiot who’s only been being a "productive’ person for two weeks. I like the way it works. I have no complaints. I’ve literally never been more pleased with a software product in my life. You can tell me OF1 would be better, but you’d be wrong. You’d be wrong to tell any satisfied OF2 user that. If their system works for us then who the hell are you to tell us that we don’t know what we’re talking about?

But’s that not even the biggest problem that I was trying to get at here. The problem I have is with you people acting like you aren’t complaining. (you are. either admit it or stop doing it but don’t claim to be helping.) If you seriously think Omni didn’t already have a precise list of features missing from OF2 before you came and “helped” them with this thread you’re sorely mistaken. They’re professionals and they’ve been doing this for a long time. I don’t like seeing indie developers getting attacked by those who are possibly not even computer scientists and certainly not professional software developers. Development clearly has not stopped. They’re trying to pay attention to you. They aren’t a very large company but they have enormous success with this kind of thing. The handful of dissatisfied people in this thread will move on instead of accepting the change that’s been offered to you. I’m not here for the short term. I appreciate indie Mac developers doing it for themselves and being successful. You can literally look at the about us page and look at every software developer you’re insulting who’s probably working 10 hours a day to figure out how to fulfill the vision of OF2. OF2 is not OF1, nor was it supposed to be. Yes, it’s supposed to be better. Just because it’s better for reasons you haven’t yet realized doesn’t mean it’s worse.

The fact that they haven’t already deleted all the posts of dissatisfied customers and locked the thread says a lot about Omni Group as a company. They’re actually willing to listen to this vitriol because they think you might actually have something to say to improve their product. I, for one, do not. You’ve been successful in convincing me that you don’t actually have anything productive to say aside from insulting indie developers and claiming you aren’t complaining.

There are very few companies like this one. I suggest you think about the massive privilege you have in even being allowed to discuss a company’s product in their forum using anything but a positive tone.

#56

A good system is the basis for everything. Just doing blindly has a very short outcome. It’s like building a house – without a good fundament, it won’t last long.
I disagree. Doing the work, and having a system are 2 separate things. I have learned that throughout the years. Doesn’t mean that system has to be complicated, quite the opposite. Also based on the situation changing, a flexible system is a great asset.

Answering your 2nd paragraph:
Old time users don’t leave reviews as well. Also, there is many more new users, than veterans. But it’s the experienced users who give the best insights for the further development.
I also like OF2, but it’s frustrating, that Omni does not implement requested changes, nor address them in any way. We, people who request, feel “left out” with our problems. Long time users know the best what aspects of the app can be improved. It’s also very crucial to the future workflow. Some of us wait since the beta day 1 on some changes. It has been a very long time, and we don’t even know if there will be any time in the future these changes will be done, and if, when. Omni has the “Apple policy” of not telling (for multiple reasons).
Another argument is that a huge amount of OF2 users, me including, switched to OF1. Just read this topic. It’s not ideal to switch, but it works better. You may don’t know OF1, but there are some crucial tools, still not implemented in OF2. We have been waiting long enough and we even don’t know if the changes will be done.
You seem to be a smart guy having everything in place. It’s great you’re using these tools so early, because once you will have to deal with dozens of projects at the same time, hundreds of emails, and many people waiting on you or you waiting on them, then you will have an experience and understanding how to manage this. And hopefully, at that point OF2+ will have what we need, or even more.

#57

It’s great you’re using these tools so early, because once you will have to deal with dozens of projects at the same time, hundreds of emails, and many people waiting on you or you waiting on them, then you will have an experience and understanding how to manage this.

I know you feel that you have to talk down to me because of my age but quite frankly I do handle a lot of stuff. I mean, a lot of stuff. At the time of writing I’m processing over 400 items in my OF2 inbox with already ~20 projects created to handle them. Granted a lot of this is small stuff but I’m handling four honors classes right now, I’m teaching a course at my school on applied computer science for robotics engineering, learning Java, Haskell, Python, JavaScript, and CSS, while also doing SAT practice, playing in a saxophone quartet, and preparing to launch a web site and blog using a custom CMS.

I’m also learning Markdown in these quick bursts of downtime that I’m taking to respond to you, because I feel that it’s important to express my discontent with the way you talk about these people.

Needless to say that’s not even everything that I’m doing but there’s a project set up for each one and the smaller things in my inbox are getting processed too. I don’t feel at all limited by OF2, and I’m certainly not the only person of this opinion. I suggested you read some reviews of it by long time OF users, such as those at Macworld as well as Shawn Blanc’s very involved review:

To close, I’ll quote his Wrap-Up:

This new version of OmniFocus is more feature-rich while also being cleaner, more organized, and more logical. The design brings a structured peacefulness to the wild animal that is my never-ending task list. And that’s quite a feat, because our to-dos are, by nature, neither structured nor peaceful.

#58

Very Impressive. I apologize if you felt I talk down to you. That wasn’t my intention. I wish you the best with the rest of the semester.

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#59

I agree that some postings here are not constructive, but there is a very real possibility that the OmniGroup will learn a lesson from Apple (professionals by any measure) and stop supporting power users because they’re simply not worth it. It’s much easier to design a system that looks great with 50 tasks in it than with 1000, and more people have 50 tasks than 1000, and they all pay the same money, so why bother? Honest question. That’s why I keep refreshing these boards. I have invested so, so, so much time in OmniFocus 1. But living outside of the Omni HQ, I have no idea if my pet peeves will be worth fixing, economically.

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#60

I agree that some postings here are not constructive, but there is a very real possibility that the OmniGroup will learn a lesson from Apple (professionals by any measure) and stop supporting power users because they’re simply not worth it.

I’m sorry, who’s stopped supporting power users? Apple? They could only do that if they stopped making their operating system Unix-based. As such I’m not quite sure who you’re comparing them to considering the unmitigated power-user disaster that Windows 8 was.

#61

Thanx for you answer Brian,

re 5 Stars 88%Experience - I think Kamil got this very right. People with 50 tasks might be happy with OF2. The problems start when you use it for hard core work. Let me explain what I mean - I will share with you my real life example:

I am running 4 teams, 30 people approx. - There are approx 15 major projects I oversee in those teams (2-8 months long). I spent 3 hours on meetings a day - deciding directions, doing followups, creating new things. I run 6 additional change projects myself. There are numerous small routines that I need to maintain (reporting, bills, just regular stuff each manager does).

All of this reults in approx 40 projects (in terms of OF terminology) that I on a weekly basis move forward. This is excluding my private life (I know it is against all GTD practices) - but this is simply because OF would become completly halted and unsusable if I added them all.

Running all of this requeries a lot of organizational effort and I was hoping (=that could be my false expectation) that OF is made for busy people primarily. (And I honestly believe there are poeple running many more things than I do).

With OF2 - instead of improving functionality some basic things became more complex. And my feeling is Brian, you got it very wrong by justyfing quality by 88% 5 start rating. Examples:

Stalled projects - filtering them and than trying to add a task causes that project disappears from the list right after enter is pressed (need to do this by workaround) - REALLY??. This is basic feature - Every night or morning I need to check whether there are some stalled projects so I do not wait till Weekly review.

Switching project type - Now need to go to the inspector -> click dropdown -> choose type. Instead of just clicking the icon as in OF1 -> that basically caused I do not use this feature anymore. REALLY??

Changing project status - again -> need to pick from dropdown instead of just clicking an icon - REALLY??

Styling & Data density is something a lot of people mentioned already. Do your experiments, but keep what’s working!

There are some improvements, review perspective, forecast - but these should go ON TOP not INSTEAD of features.

So, all in all - There could be 2 groups of people rating OF2 5 stars - Newcomers & Non powerusers of OF1

As I mentioned above - it might be only my personal expectation, that this product is made for GTD power users, Omni might have never had ambition to address these people. Or they might have changed - it is all ok - but please communicate this. You guys are very poor in expectations management.

You still do a great SW, and I love your products, just don’t get people dissapointed by your weak communication. And now it is not about fixed deadlines - it could be just admitting - we fucked up and these are our priorities.

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