Merged the threads as requested. Thanks for pointing that out!
First off, thanks to everyone thatās posting here. āIām having trouble doing important_thing, and hereās whyā¦ā is the most valuable information we can get out of testing programs (and threads) like this.
I donāt have a hard time remembering my project/context structures, but I am terrible at remembering keyboard shortcuts. The vast majority of the time, I just click on the Help menu in an app, then start typing the name of the menu item until I find the one I want, then hit Enter to trigger the action. Not as fast as memorizing the shortcut, but faster than scrubbing over all the menus.
Similarly, I have been using the keyboard to assign my inbox items to projects and contexts in both v1 and v2. I click the field and start typing. Even if I canāt remember the exact name, I can generally get close enough to choose the one I want with a few arrow-key strokes at most. Upside: fast, requires one window. Downside: the projects arenāt visible, which several people have said is important to them.
Which isnāt to say that anyone thatās assigning things by dragging is doing it wrong, of course, or to say that you should be doing it the way I do. Like Kristina, Iām just describing what works for me in case itās an improvement for anyone else using the app, and trying to better understand other peopleās workflows.
I canāt speak to what solutions the design & engineering folks will come up with, but I know theyāre aware of the issue being discussed here and are thinking about how to address these concerns. I think itās safe to say that all the solutions suggested in this thread are under consideration to varying degrees, but it should also be said that most of them require design, engineering, and testing.
Between now and ship, we have to give the highest priority to crashes, errors, and any sync bugs we uncover. (So far, so good, but thereās work to do.) Issues like that the one being discussed here are relatively more likely to be addressed in a post-2.0 release.
That turned into more of a wall of text than I intended - I hope it helps, and thanks to anyone who read through it. :-)
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Awesome the Edit Convert to Project (Cmd !) is exactly what I needed I just hadnāt seen it thanks for the pointer its actually faster using the keyboard shortcut than trying to drag and drop it. Thanks again.
Ah ā that is where it went. I was used to the Command-[ shortcut in the inbox to convert an inbox item to a project.
Brian, thanks for the reply. However, I must respectfully disagree with you on this one as being a āpost 2.0ā release issue. Processing the Inbox without friction is one of the single best and most important things that OF1 allows us to do. Whether dragging or dropping, converting to projects, etc. - it just works. The ability to see my project hierarchy is critical when doing this, and I think that is why you are seeing so much similar feedback on this. Would love to see something done on this prior to the release.
Having said that, I really do love the beta in so many ways! Keep smiling and many thanks for allowing us to provide feedback!
Jeff
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I love, love OF (and OmniGroup). But, one of the basic ideas of GTD is dumping stuff into your inbox, then moving them into projects. Iād really be interested in hearing what the thought process was in making this simple action more difficult as is the case with OF2. I get the ā2-windowā idea, but as others have suggested, itās clunky and seems like a work-around. Am I missing something? What is the advantage to the current design?
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Great - What happens if you want to insert the project into a particular folder?
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I just let it drop my Action in the Inbox into the Projects list then as part of my review process I clean them up and get them into the correct folder. For example I have a Work and a Home folder amongst a few others I donāt see a way to cleanly automate it and I sure donāt want them dropped in the wrong folder so I like the way they are dropped by default into the Projects list and then its just a simple drag drop at review to ensure things are clean.
I just started working with the beta, new to OF, and the first thing I wondered is how the heck I can see my Projects list and Inbox at the same time for easy drag-and-drop organization. So I hate to log in just to say +1, but since itās a workflow issue for me I think itās especially important. Iāll use the two-window method for now, but agree itās less elegant than a one-window solution.
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Have you tried typing the folders in separated with ā:ā?
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I donāt believe itās possible to do what @Cliftonplymouth is trying to do with that method - you can navigate the folder structure, but I believe that smart match will only let you drop into existing projects. (Thereās a feature request filed on what heās after, though.)
Nonetheless, I really appreciate it when folks are willing to try and help each other out here. Have yourself a ālikeā, sir. ;-)
On second thought, I guess it depends on what @Cliftonplymouth is trying to do. You can create a new project if you type out the folder path with each level separated by " : " and ending with the name of the new project. The project is created, and the action gets put inside.
What I assumed they were trying to do, though, is make the inbox action itself a new project.
I understand that at this point in the release cycle the design is fixed but I strongly encourage Omni to revisit this feature. This is a basic GTD workflow model of marshaling inbox items to projects. In OF1 I was able to quickly do this in one window in a matters of seconds. In working in ONE window that task has now turned into minutes. The option presented of opening a new window is viable provided you arenāt accustomed to running the app in full screen mode. By opening up a new window you break the user experience and create much more friction for the power OF user. This is a major ding against a very well designed product.
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I agree.
Inbox processing it maybe the most important part of the GTD task management process for me. I just dump things into the Inbox and sort it out later but currently there is no way to know whatās in the Inbox (if anything) because I have to click on the sidebar to access it separately and then I have no spatial/organizational sense of where it needs to go once Iām in sequestered away in the Inbox screen.
I use a small Macbook Air so having a multi-window solution is a pretty terrible one. Itās not so much about drag and drop as much as having a structural sense of my projects and/or contexts being a very visual thinker.
So, to sum up my thoughts ā
A greater emphasis on Inbox clearing is needed.
There needs to be a badge denoting the number of Inbox items remaining.
There needs to be a way to see the Inbox and the Context or Project structure simultaneously.
1 Like
Ok so there are two issues or flows here I think
a) You have stuff in your Inbox and you want to create a project from it. This is accomplished by hitting Cmd-! or Edit-> Convert to Project. Or you can now drag the action from the Inbox over the Project tab it will glow blue and get moved over as a project.
b) You have stuff in the Inbox you want to add to an existing Project. This is accomplished by dropping to the second line in the action on the far left there is what looks like a small right facing triangle and document just start typing the project name in select the one you want and it will get assigned to that project.
Admittedly the actions are added to the bottom of the projects list of tasks which in the old drag drop method you could select where you wanted it but so far this is not a massive issue in my workflow I catch these in review and ensure the project tasks themselves are accurate.
I think everyone understands how to get inbox items to where they need to be but the problem lies in
a) Its now a two step task instead of one step.
b) We want to see the inbox item in relation to the folders and project lists.
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I have tried using the two window solution, because, well, it is the only Drag and Drop solution available. And while it pales in comparison to a single -window approach, there are two things that Team Omni could do, which would make such an approach at least tolerable - and they are:
-
Restore state when launching OF2. Meaning that if I quit OF2 with two windows open, arranged nicely to meet my Inbox processing requirements, OF2 should restore the state of the application when I re- launch. Two windows should be opened, and in the same size and position - and with the same state for the sidebar and toolbar and inspector - that I left the application in. Else I have to open the second window, re-size it, close or open the sidebar and/or toolbar and/ or inspector, etc.
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Closely related to the above requirement, allow us to restore the above through the activation of a perspective. In other words, perspectives should also save the state, and that should also include all of the elements detailed above (window size and position, sidebar and toolbar state, etc.).
If Omni supported the above, I could at least establish a view of the Inbox designed to reduce friction as much as possible with a two window approach for processing it. Not my ideal solution, but at least something that is more viable than what we have now.
Thanks!
Rique
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Replying to my post to note that I tried the two window solution on my 15" MBP (Retina display). It was really difficult sizing and aligning the windows in such a way that it was useful. It was much more trying and time-consuming than attempting the same task on an external monitor (which is where OF2 normally ālivesā for me).
Add to that the fact that, having done all of that fiddling around to re-size and align the two windows (not to mention hiding or displaying the sidebar and inspector), I lost all that just from quitting and re-starting OF2. Only one window was retained, meaning that I had to / need to go through the same process all. over. again.
And so I realize I am not adding much new to the discussion, other than to say that my experience with a single monitor setup, even when the monitor is a 15" retina display, amply demonstrates the need to retain state of windows and to support saving (and reloading) state from perspectives. /end rant
EDIT: OR of course it demonstrates another good reason why a single window, four pane, setup for processing the Inbox should be supported. Because then I could tolerate that state (of multiple windows) is not restored with a re-start - because I wouldnāt need multiple windows any longer. I would, however, still maintain that state should be included / supported in our perspectives.
Rique
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Since Omni watches these for urgency/need I wanted to chime in.
Having downloaded the beta just yesterday, I happily jumped in. The look and feel is fantastic. The forecast and review perspectives are very welcome indeed.
The loss of a combined Inbox/Project view took under a minute to identify. What was so simple and intuitive became a āNow what?ā moment. The loss of drag and drop between the inbox and projects cannot be overstated for me.
The workaround is fine for the moment I suppose.
Iām a fan of the idea that when you click the inbox, the projects outline remains with drag and drop capability. I mean, the inbox is the only sidebar view that doesnāt have the 4 pane layout. Adding it would simply make the inbox consistent with everything else.
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MOCKUP IN PHOTOSHOP: Omni could do this and make everybody happy, itās necesary and the simplest way of doing it.
Display the inbox at the top of the projects with a separator line. Same as OF1
The inbox tab can still be used as a focused inbox view, to capture lots of stuff or wharever.
It would also allow us to hide the inbox tab using the stars in the perspectives list, in case we just want to use the inbox entry in the Projects tab.
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